15m or 4hrs trading
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- This topic has 15 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by Vonasi.
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06/11/2018 at 12:31 AM #72807
I need the forums opinion on which is better for designing a profitable system:
Back testing a 15 min system on 2yr of data 50,000 units of historical data say
OR
Back testing a 4hr system on 4 yrs of data 6,250 units of historical data say
Remember the historical data period is not the same, BUT the 15 min data has a larger sample size to back test on
As I mentioned in an earlier post I cannot get more than 4 yrs of data on a 4 hr chart and 2 yrs on 15 minutes. This is an IG thing and I cannot change this fact unfortunately my surname is not Buffett or Soros 🙂
Chris
06/11/2018 at 7:34 AM #72816Personally I would take the longer period of time. A two year view of a market is not a very long time. To be honest four years is not a lot either – which is why I now much prefer daily or weekly data and end of day strategies. It allows me to back test on periods where the markets were behaving weirdly compared to how they are behaving now
It is very easy to write a strategy that is great on one years in sample data and that maybe looks good on two years when you add out of sample but you really need to know what happens when the market is behaving very differently and for this you may need to go back 10 or 15 years to see if your idea survives or wipes you out. IMHO
If you search the web for and read anything from any of the big trading names then you will find that they pretty much all test their ideas on daily and end of day data. If it works for them then it is good enough for us I guess.
06/11/2018 at 7:48 AM #72819Thank you Vonasi.
I have heard people having profitable systems on both 15 mins and daily chart entries. I do see your point of backtesting over a longer period. 4yrs of data on a 4hr entry system may seem insufficient but unfortunately these are the cards I’ve been dealt. Daily charts I have 30 + years of data. I have read both camps to trade on small and also large timeframes such as daily or end of day. One of my criticisms on the daily entry is few entries and having to wait longer to realise your profits. I find the longer you may have to wait to profit the more chance of a turn around?
06/11/2018 at 7:52 AM #7282006/11/2018 at 7:55 AM #7282206/11/2018 at 8:06 AM #72826Both trading styles have their merits. One is more fun, more of an adrenalin rush, more chance of the house winning – and the other is boring but if you have enough money to cope with and maybe even buy more during the draw downs then is ultimately more likely to be profitable. IMHO
As Buffet said – ‘buy good companies when others are selling’ and he seems to have done all right out of the idea.
06/11/2018 at 9:06 AM #7283506/11/2018 at 9:34 AM #72839Funnily enough I listened to a podcast yesterday where they tested the 1:2 risk reward ratio idea and found it not to work. No stops or very loose stops and giving the trade plenty of time to develop worked best. My own testing has also found this. Obviously as I said before you have to be able to afford the draw downs.
Personally I have never had any luck with FX. Indices should with all being right in the world go up with maybe some big corrections on the way. Avoid these or budget for them and you should be ok. The best policy is buy and hold and go to cash in down turns … oh and live to be 300 years old!
06/11/2018 at 9:38 AM #7284006/11/2018 at 10:14 AM #72847I have grown to much prefer using an indicator to tell me when to get out of a trade – or even something as simple as ‘I’m in profit, it has been a few days and there hasn’t been much movement – get out while I’m ahead!’
Interestingly the same podcast tested ATR based stops and found that ATR * 3 was actually quite an effective stop. Obviously this was one test on one strategy on one day so you can only read so much into it.
I’m just not a big fan of stops. When the DAX fell massively in one day a little while back my 800 pip emergency stop got hit on one strategy. Sods law it went down about another 100 pips and then bounced right back up again. If I had had no stop it would have been far better for my bank account.
With risk reward ratios you have to understand that every time you place for example a coin toss trade with 1:1 ratio you will win 50% and lose 50% except you won’t because the spread puts the balance in the favour of losing. You can change the risk reward ratio up or down however you like but it will not change the fact that the spread is against you. Your strategy has to have enough edge to over come the forces against you and just changing risk reward ratio will not fix a strategy with no edge.
06/11/2018 at 10:19 AM #7284906/11/2018 at 10:25 AM #72851A stop does not have to be a price it can be a number that an indicator achieves.
The strategy they tested was a daily end of day strategy. No exact details of the strategy given as it was just a podcast about proving and disproving some popular theories.
06/11/2018 at 10:33 AM #7285306/11/2018 at 11:39 AM #72864It was taking a basic strategy and then testing to see if stops improved it, ATR stops, trailing stops, trailing ATR I think etc etc. It is one of the many ‘Better System Trader’ podcasts that can be found here:
https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/gt9hu-357f7/Better-System-Trader-Podcast
Sorry I can’t remember which one it was but I do know it was with Alvarez – but then he has done quite a few of them!
06/11/2018 at 11:43 AM #72865 -
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