Automated Signals/Algos – why it fails?

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  • #183084

    Hello everyone, my two cents thoughts and feedback on my experience using automated Signals/Algos in Day trading. Really frustrated and would very much want to hear your thoughts, advice, experience.

    When you have automated Signals, that you extecute manually or through an Algo, it happens so frequently that the Signal appears for a certain time, say 1 minute, before disappearing… but have already entered into the Trade. In my case, this usually ends in a loss, because I keep holding with the hope to go back into my direction, saying to myself that if the Signal triggered once, sure thing it will comeback…

    I tried to put in more filters then you have much less trade opportunities and the alert triggers late in the move. You have a huge opportunity cost for getting this extra confirmation.

    How do you manage this? Which filters work best for you without giving up too much on the performance?

    Thanks

    #183086

    If you are using MTF, make sure you use UPDATEONCLOSE to only being returned signal when a candle closes.

    A solution could be to wait for a second signal, so that you trade only after to adjacent signals are returned, but this is likely to heavily cut the number of trades.

    Another solution is to use a Breakeven/Trailing stop code to make sure you won’t suffer a loss after some gains have shown.

    The easiest solution would be to accept that losses are necessary events, provided they don’t exceed some percentage, so that your strategy is still profitable in the long run.

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #183100

    In my case, this usually ends in a loss, because I keep holding with the hope to go back into my direction, saying to myself that if the Signal triggered once, sure thing it will comeback…

     

    The easiest solution would be to accept that losses are necessary events

    That.
    During the course of time I learned that the only thing which really works is working with the law of the big numbers. See first attachment, which shows you that losses surely emerge. They are a fact and have to be accepted. For me it is an explicit part of the game. I tried to find the worst page of the past month.

    The 2nd attachment tries to show what “large numbers” mean. It means that there are really many trades with also many losses; If with these numbers this is the balance, it should be the balance forever (ahem).  This is not optimised at all, but it tries to deal with losses by means of observing them and e.g. counteract situations of 2 subsequent losses, or 3 and more (the attachment shows a streak of 3 losses max). Such an observation can only be done with “big data”, which in this case comprises only one month. Btw, this is not scalping as such – it is a technical system working with “perceived behavior” signals.

    In the third attachment you see the fun of a system in drawdown from the start (it shows the first 5 days). Here too the big numbers speak, because how to get above the zero line when you not first allow the system to make some profit so it can bear some (keep in mind, it will lose too). Thus, bail out too soon and it will never get there. Compare with the bar chart in the 2nd attachment and you can see that the past 3 days were 3 losing days in a row. But at that point in time it can bear some, which you can see in the net result which includes those 3 days.

    The moral could be : if you look at your own signals and what they brought you *and* you explicitly take into account the losses, then from there you will be able to improve your signals. But, they must be your signals, and not some out-of-context which was grabbed from a random forum post. They must be all about your ideas how you trade the markets manually (!).
    Always be careful that your (backtest) result does not spring from exceptionally good situations. The green spike of November 30 is such an example. “Why did it happen, how coincidental is it and how does it bias my idea of my system”. It is dangerous because it could color my net result green for this month, and the next month it may not be there and I am losing …

    I hope this made some sense for you, Khaled.

    #183106

    Thank you Peter for this insightful sharing of experience. I completely agree with you and this were psychology enters into play. I’ve developed my own system to generate signals but trade them in a discretionary mode.

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