minimum distance for this market is x

• 12/19/2023 at 8:40 AM #225408
  justisan

  hi Ash,

  sorry, maybe – by using my self-made English – I expressed myself in some misleading way…   with my statements I did not want to tell I doubt that IG sets minimum distances for entries with limit orders, nor I did want to tell you should use stop orders for entries instead of limit orders (you use of course type of orders which fit to your trading idea best). by telling that myself I don’t use limit orders for entries I only was telling the reason why I am not aware (=I don’t know) that IG sets minimum distances for entries with limit orders.  obviously IG when decides to do so sets those minimum distances for both directions at the same time. which sounds absolutely logical. they set those min dinstances around the time of “events” which might lead to huge price gaps or at least very fast moving markets – and nobody in the world knows in which direction the markets will gap/move.

  

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  12/19/2023 at 10:55 AM #225411
  ashehzi

  Hi,

  I agree. I was totally fine with your earlier post. I was just stating the fact that I prefer using limit orders based on my strat. But surely it has down sides also.

  IG today e.g. filled my USDJPY long at 06:36 but didn’t honour the stoploss and closed it at double the stop loss price, I know I didn’t use guaranteed stop loss so slippage made me lose twice. There were sudden news “BoJ’s Governor Ueda: We won’t hesitate to take additional easing measures if necessary.” at that time so yes it happens with stop hunting.

  I wonder besides using guaranteed stop loss, what other protections one could try.

   

   

  

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  12/19/2023 at 11:46 AM #225414
  JS

  Hi,

  When I look at your screenshot, I see that your “Limit Order” is filled and that your “Stop Loss” is rejected…

  What is the message under the yellow triangle…?

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  12/19/2023 at 12:05 PM #225415
  robertogozzi

  There are two types of pending orders:

  • STOP orders are used when the current price, at the time you place that order, is WORSE than that of the pending order (i.e. it’s higher for LONG trades and lower for SHORT trades), like in a Stop Loss, as a Stop Loss order for a LONG trade means entering a SHORT trade at a WORSE price than the current price, so that the position is closed when the direction is going the opposite direction;
    .
  • LIMIT orders are used when the current price, at the time you place that order, is BETTER than that of the pending order (i.e. it’s lower for LONG trades and higher for SHORT trades, so that you buy or sell at a more rewarding price).

  The picture attached above helps to fugure that out.

   

   

  

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  12/19/2023 at 12:38 PM #225419
  GraHal

  ashehzi wrote:

  I wonder besides using guaranteed stop loss, what other protections one could try.

  When starting an Algo, do you tick the box … ‘Readjust Stops’? (this is different from guaranteed stop loss).

  

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  12/19/2023 at 12:45 PM #225420
  ashehzi

  All It says is “Position does not”

   

  It doesn’t say anything further. I cannot capture it with snipping tool otherwise would’ve shared.

  I wonder when I leave a manual order through IG web interface, I can define Order Limit, StopLoss and Target Profit Limit all at once. While when algo enters limit order, there is no stoploss and limit defined. It is naked. Once the limit order gets executed, then it tries to setup stoploss and target profit and in the event of news, slippage is guaranteed.

  The attached screenshot order is left by PRT auto trading.

   

  

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  12/19/2023 at 12:47 PM #225422
  ashehzi

  Yes. I am checking the box for “readjust stops”

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  12/19/2023 at 1:04 PM #225425
  ashehzi

  I started another algo with Guaranteed Stoploss on USDJPY and I can see it has just placed an order with G stoploss and profit limit visible in IG. See attached.  But if it is not guaranted then behaviour is different as explained before i.e. no stop loss, no target profit.

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  PeterSt

  

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  12/19/2023 at 3:08 PM #225438
  PeterSt

  Guys, it is useless trying to sort the stuff IG messes up. Please read again the longer post from justisan from yesterday. I have told about such things a dozen++ times, exactly the same.

  Hi GraHal, that second checkbox is for something else. Maybe I should finally show a video about that. 😉
  I always tick that box, it does not help a single thing against the issue Ash (and justisan) talk about.

  The other day I prepared a post for this topic (I think I did not post it – or was it elsewhere ?) in which I announced that PRT is going to ask IG about what the cause is of what happened on Dec 13 (see 2nd screenshot). We know it already, but PRT is now hoping for a formal answer. And I don’t want to waste my time on restarting Systems for more than 60 minutes in a row.
  In that not posted post I also talked about the loss of income that evening, and how a nice though smaller car was stolen from me.

  Ash, I have also told a couple of time of so-called slippage of more than two minutes on a Stop Loss. 3 trades all going through the (bottom) roof. SL was at 120 or so, and the 3 trades nicely went all the way to more than 1000 (yes, each) before they went out. When things get heavy for IG(‘s hedging) they switch to manual mode.

  justisan, with IB it really is not better but for different reasons. Best hint there is : don’t use Systems with 1 minute or less TimeFrame. IB very often does not respond quickly enough, and out is your system once again. The general rule (of issue) here is : when a second Limit or Stop order is handed to the broker before the broker responded to the previous order, then the communication with IB is deemed “failed” and out goes your system. This can happen with Entries – but is more rare because you’re not entering 24 hours in a row, but this also happens with Exits (think your own trailing), which may happen hours in a row with a good trailing system, and which will almost by guarantee fail after 30 minutes or so (or after 1 minute). Think 30 minutes and thus 30 attempts for e.g. a pending stop  order, and you will see that it is easy to catch a moment that the order is not processed at e.g. for more than 1 minute.
  Try manually placing a DAX order at 6 am (Amsterdam) or so (don’t do that at 6:30 am because that is IB reset time). You will see almost by guarantee that half of the times it takes so long, that PRT will reset the platform. And be extra careful because it will look as if the order failed to be there, and if you re-attempt you will have it twice (or trice).

  There is only one remedy : recognize all the situations throughout time and work around them. This takes years (for me it did and still does).
  Don’t waste time on Paper Trading (IB) or Demo account (IG). The errors are different (actually more of them), and the ones occurring in Live are not there.

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  12/19/2023 at 3:15 PM #225443
  PeterSt

  ashehzi wrote:

  But if it is not guaranted then behaviour is different as explained before i.e. no stop loss, no target profit.

  This is interesting …
  The last time I talked about this issue (apart from my post above), I slowly started to blame PRT itself. I forgot the logic I applied to my reasoning then, but what you say here, Ash, is another hint to that idea. Hmm …

  

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  12/19/2023 at 3:20 PM #225444
  PeterSt

  ashehzi wrote:

  I started another algo with Guaranteed Stoploss on USDJPY

  Just to be sure …
  You know this costs extra money, right ? I don’t know for your USDJPY but for Nasdaq it’s a half of a point of spread. Just last week I saw it on a web page. Ah … it is still in my browser – see the column “gegarandeerde stoppremie”. Link in Dutch.

  

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  12/19/2023 at 5:09 PM #225476
  ashehzi

  Thanks Peter for multiple posts.

  Regarding guaranteed stop losses, I am aware there is a premium e.g. for USDJPY, it is 1.8 points. Similarly, it is atleast 1 point for NAS.

  My system runs on 1h but I am exploring to use it on 15m for better trade management like

  1. if 15m close below my level and I am losing, I set my profit to breakeven where I expect the market to tag again before going fully against it. Ofcourse, it doesn’t stop loss is there anyway.
  2. Sometimes the move is missed because it did 1-2 decent resets of the level and there is very less chance of market returing to the level.
  3. System places only one trade per instrument per day. So If market doesn’t retest on 1h, the order stays there whole day getting closed at 2000 London Time.

  I agree regarding different results for Demo and Live. I did notice once IG wasn’t tagging my target profit on demo while it was already done on Live. Rear but yes it can happen.

  Regarding workarounds, I tell you one of my core systems rely on data IG doesn’t provide so there is no way I can automate that. Finally found some workaround which I can use to achieve similar results. But now cannot get it tested in Demo on 15m because of preload limit not greater than 10k while I need at least one year worth of data on 15m meaning 36k candles.

   

  

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