not approved: stop too close

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  • 12/19/2020 at 8:02 PM #154462
    Franro

    I got this message not approved: stop to close in my ig app when one bot took a position. It has worked perfectly fine with breakeven breakevenPercent = 0.16
    pointstokeep = 1.1. Have they changed something?

    12/19/2020 at 8:11 PM #154463
    Vonasi

    Most likely the broker IG changed the minimum stop distance and your strategy tried to place an order too close.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    avatar Franro
    12/19/2020 at 9:05 PM #154470
    Franro

    Minimum distance is 10 points. And bot is for Wall street Cash (1euro). I mena that should cover it?

    12/19/2020 at 10:49 PM #154486
    Vonasi

    Overnight spread for Wall Street is 3.8pips at the moment I think which only gives you 6.2 pips to your stop level – pretty small!

    IG can adjust the minimum stop distance at any time. Often during times of high volatility they will massively increase it. At other times one could be cynical and say that they might just change it to make a lot of auto strategies close their trades or just stop being auto and so have to be manually controlled (depending upon what platform settings you have for stopped strategies).

    Basically what this means is that a strategy with a very close stop distance cannot be expected to perform exactly like a back test that has no minimum stop distance and will most likely lose lots of money during periods of high volatility if traded live.

    Topic moved to ProOrder forum as it is not really a platform issue but an auto-trading broker issue.

    12/19/2020 at 11:22 PM #154490
    Franro

    It was 4.8 in spread in that time. . But what happens if this happen? Does the system shut down or just wait until it gets to minimum (10 pips) and then move up the stop?

    And also how did you get 6.2 pips?

    Thanks!

    12/20/2020 at 12:00 AM #154502
    Franro

    I guess it is possible to change the pointstokeep to 10+. But I have always ran a breakeven code with arround 1 pts to keep and I have never had a problem that the system gets not approved and saying that the stop is too close.

    It was a friend who got this message. Then it is a problem. So I am wondering what does happen if this happens?

    12/20/2020 at 12:10 AM #154506
    robertogozzi

    If your TRAILSTART is 30 pips, you should never have any issue, since even accounting 1 pip to keep + 5 pips of spread leaves 24 pips as a safeguard.

    If your TRAILSTART is 15, 10 minimun + 5 spread + 1 to keep…. is not enough!

     

    12/20/2020 at 12:28 AM #154507
    Vonasi
    Franro wrote:

    It was 4.8 in spread in that time. . But what happens if this happen? Does the system shut down or just wait until it gets to minimum (10 pips) and then move up the stop?

    And also how did you get 6.2 pips?

    Your strategy places an order. You get either the bid or ask price (depending if you are going long or short). These prices are 3.8 pips apart normally (the spread) so if you wanted to close the trade instantly you would lose 3.8 pips straight away. You set a sell price 10 pips away from your entry price which is in reality just (10-3.8=6.2) pips away from your entry price.

    You say the spread was 4.8 so in fact your stop was only 5.2 pips away. A moment of volatility can see this tiny distance hit in an instant.

    I would suggest applying the built in ‘bid/ask’ indicator to your price chart and then you can truly see how spread can vary with volatility or even just the time of day. For example spread just before the market closes can become quite big and so take out very close stops.

    12/20/2020 at 12:35 AM #154508
    Franro

    It is a breakeven code and I have only noticed this when the spread has been 4.8 for my friend. I have never noticed this myself but maybe it has happend to me also? If I change the ptstokeep from 1 to 30 the results are going from this example 9k to 6.5k.

    In Proorder it says “If you are using stops in your code, please be advised that any stop outside this range will automaticly be readjusted”. So is acctually nessecary to have 30 instead of just having 1 and letting prt to adjust it to just minimum all the time? As I want it as low as possible to get the best results? Also then I must check “readjust stops” right?

    12/20/2020 at 12:48 AM #154511
    Franro

    You say the spread was 4.8 so in fact your stop was only 5.2 pips away. A moment of volatility can see this tiny distance hit in an instant.

     

    It is fine if it hits the stop during volatility I understand that part as the spread is higher the stop will  be closer. But the message says not approved: stop to close. and minimum stop distance is 10 pts foir ProOrder and I dont run “readjust stops” So what will happend if the pts to keep is lower than 10, will the algo stop or will it keep run and maybe readjust stop when it bigger than 10. And also is the solution for this checking “readjust stops” will this acctually improve the results or make them worse? And as I said above isnt it better to have 1 and letting prt to adjust it to just minimum all the time as the backtest shows that the lower the pts to keep is the better results instead of writing 30 when for EXAMPLE 5 can be enough at some spread times?

    12/20/2020 at 9:16 AM #154529
    Vonasi

    ‘not approved: stop to close’ (does it actually say ‘to’ or ‘too’? as ‘to’ is terrible English!) sounds like a rejected order.

    What happens when an order is rejected depends on what you have chosen. The strategy will be stopped but the trade will be either left open on the market for you to trade manually or closed out at whatever price it was at when the order was rejected.

    I’m not sure what the current situation is as I don’t run any strategies with such close stops. It used to be that 11 rejected orders in a row were needed for a strategy to be stopped.

    IG’s spread for Wall street can be as big as 9.8 pips depending on the time of day:

    https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-betting-and-cfds/fees-and-charges/what-are-igs-indices-spread-bet-product-details

    08.00-14.30
    14.30-21.00
    21.15-21.30
    22.00-23.00
    All other times    		 3.6
    2.4
    9.8
    9.8
    4.8

     

    IG often change these spreads – until recently the overnight spread for Wall Street was 3.8 but now it is 4.8 and I don’t recall seeing spread of 9.8 around the market close before!

    Most brokers aren’t keen on scalping strategies and a stop just 10 pips away could be considered scalping. A brief widening of the spread every now and then is a good way for them to close out some scalpers for a loss and to stop their strategies – well that’s what I’d do if I was a broker!

    12/20/2020 at 9:43 AM #154534
    Franro

    It says too close and thats what I meant.

    How come I dont get any message about anything getting rejected in Canceled/Rejected even though I run with 1.1 pts to keep? And the system has never been stopped before since monhts back. And I dont run my systems with  “readjust stops”?

    It happend to my friend with the same strategy his bot got stopped and he got this message “Your trading system was stopped because it tried to place a stop order below the minimum distance required by your broker”. How come has only this happend for him and not me? And to my other question as I asked earlier (hope you can answer) what is the best solution for this to get best RESULTS. Is it keep 1 points to keep as it has worked fine before and just check  “readjust stops” when you start the system and if  it happens then it just get readjusted that time instead of changing the pts to keep to 30 and gett WAY WORSE results…

    12/20/2020 at 10:25 AM #154543
    Vonasi

    I can’t answer any of those questions. The issue is with your broker. The PRT platform simply sends orders to your broker – whether they are completed or rejected is up to the broker. If something was working but now isn’t then you will need to ask your broker what has changed.

    Earlier in the year minimum stop distances went from just a few pips to 100’s of pips during periods of high volatility. Something in the region of a minimum stop distance of 2%.

    12/20/2020 at 10:37 AM #154546
    Franro

    I Will ask ig then. Thanks for your help!

    Well the rejected messages still says the stop was lower than 10 pts which was the minimum. So the stop distance wasnt changed but I guess the spread might have been. But it was at 18.18 when the spread should have been 2.4.

     

    Well anyway next step is contact ig, thanks again

    12/20/2020 at 10:54 AM #154548
    Franro

    You set a sell price 10 pips away from your entry price which is in reality just (10-3.8=6.2) pips away from your entry price.

     

    You say the spread was 4.8 so in fact your stop was only 5.2 pips away

    My breakeven is at 0.16 percent mening the stop is change after 0.16% and The points its keeping is 1.1.

    How am I allowed to keep 1.1 pts when minimum is 10? My head goes blank here…

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