ProOrder stopped – stop below minimum distance (IG Index)

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  • 07/06/2022 at 9:52 AM #196868
    GraHal
    Giddy wrote:

    who else (other brokers) offer cfd/spread betting via PRT?

    I take it you mean autotrading? If Yes, then only IG currently offer autotradng using PRT.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    avatar Giddy
    07/06/2022 at 5:31 PM #196904
    Giddy

    Thanks GraHal – looks like I’ll have to find a way to convert it to MT4 or something and take my chances with another platform for at least some of my strategies.

    It’s crazy – 50 points is just an arbitrary number – doesn’t take into account which market – 50 pts on GBP/USD is a significantly different % to 50 pts on EUR/MXN!

    07/06/2022 at 5:54 PM #196908
    GraHal

    Then just as you get all set and familiar with MT4, IG will switch the min dist back to what it was when your TS’s were running okay.

    How about trying Indices?  The basis for where price level sits at any point in time is more traceable / logical than with Forex?

    Your TS’s – with a little tweaking – may perform well on, for example, the DJI and this may save you time and frustration switching out of PRT?

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    avatar Giddy
    07/06/2022 at 5:56 PM #196911
    PeterSt
    Giddy wrote:

    It’s crazy – 50 points is just an arbitrary number – doesn’t take into account which market – 50 pts on GBP/USD is a significantly different % to 50 pts on EUR/MXN!

    Andrew, still there is a correlation; it can well be so that you won’t scalp EUR/MXN (or one I know for sure : EUR/ZAR) because the spread is too high and thus it costs too much. The 50 points is worthless (10 times less), and thus you could utilise that ? answer : No because too expensive.

    07/06/2022 at 9:39 PM #196927
    Giddy

    SUCCESS! – first 2 trades executed this evening since last Wednesday.  Not quite the volume I would like but progress! GBP/JPY with a 55pt order distance (50 doesn’t seem to work, still fail).  Took a little while to trigger but winning trades nonetheless.

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    avatar GraHal
    07/07/2022 at 9:42 AM #196954
    inverse

    Guys can someone please explain what’s happening here? Is this a pure scalp / trade system issue because IG is moving the goal posts / snipping related?

    When I signed up (a while back) word at the time was don’t scalp or trade news and you’re good to go.

    Giddy wrote:

    The Stop and Limit type Working Orders will need to be set 50 points away from the current market price.

    I would have thought a profit target 50points out wouldn’t be seen as snipping on an Index, say DAX, or 5/10ths of a cent on a USD pair.

    Crypto I get where it’s money for jam but other instr. not so certain.

    50 points is kind of big but an earlier post mentions auto-trade systems. IS the issue present with vanilla entries as well? I would have said no and it’s the scalp and what the saint mentioned re: snipping the provider.

    Are you saying you can’t place ‘resting orders’ stop or limit via TS <=50points … ?

    So no stop / limit, entry / exits, on trade systems unless you’re >50pts out. Yes, that’ll curtail the activity.

    Are we saying that IG is not a scalpers broker, or not a scalpers broker when working with trading systems, which have now become the norm.

    Maybe need to code, if possible, true market limit orders, as in sweep X – sounding a little arduous, unless your a DOM trader.

    Apologies for the roundabout way of putting this across.

    07/07/2022 at 11:13 AM #196958
    inverse
    GraHal wrote:

    My theory is that at times IG’s ‘book is unbalanced enough‘ to trigger a ‘no more positions to be opened  scenario’ and so we end up with a rash of Rejected Orders accompanied by various error messages? I go fine for weeks with no Rejects, then one fine day I may 5, 6 or more Rejects. Above seems to happen most at market turning points and high volatility.

    Are you trading auto-systems here Gra w/stop or limits (entry/exits) resting or hitting b/a manually … ?

    IG will go into self preservation mode, when like you say, there are grey swans etc. Have discussed this with them historically, and while I get it, widening the spread would be preferable because some traders aren’t worried about burning the points on entry w/in reason. It all comes down to systems, proprietary, discretionary, contrarian or the black scholes crews.

    Do you have any experience with ‘trade managers, sweep order w/limit/kill and the like, or, IG’s API? Is it worth looking into, there own API. Are the ladies and gents with PRT systems running fill and kill order types?

     

     

    07/07/2022 at 1:02 PM #196973
    GraHal
    inverse wrote:

    Are you trading auto-systems here Gra

    Yes my comment you quoted above is related to AutoTrading.

    inverse wrote:

    Do you have any experience with ‘trade managers

    No sorry, I’ve never used trade managers nor API.

     

    01/10/2023 at 12:50 PM #207172
    GraHal
    inverse wrote:

    Are you saying you can’t place ‘resting orders’ stop or limit via TS <=50points … ? So no stop / limit, entry / exits, on trade systems unless you’re >50pts out.

    Are you still having the same Issue as above Giddy ?

    Is your answer to inverse question … a Yes?

    03/28/2024 at 2:23 PM #230657
    pro-index

    I’ve got the problem twice. So far no solution ! do not know the reason

    04/27/2024 at 12:58 AM #231975
    Finning

    Hi all,

    is this unrealistic minimum stop distances for markets still a concern?

    Has anyone tried coding on lower timeframes with higher timeframe datas and just using selling at market commands and not stops to combat this? And keeping those large minimum stops as a backup safety, and not a trading mechanism?

    Have been out of the space for a while and this is one of the first things I’ve now seen.

    I’m looking at a daily strategy but wondering if I have to run it on minute bars because of this problem, just so I know it will work.

    Thanks,

    Finning

    04/27/2024 at 8:48 AM #231980
    GraHal
    Finning wrote:

    using selling at market commands and not stops to combat this?

    Nearly all mine are as above and I hardly ever get a Reject for min distance.

    I also tick the box ‘adjust stops’ when I start each Algo in ProOrder.

    My SL and TP are far out relative to the min distance, but – even during high volatility where min distance can be 100’s of points – the ‘adjust stops’ box appears to work and prevent Rejection of the Algo.   I say appears to work … as how would we know?

    All I can say is that Rejection for ‘min distance’ is a thing of the past for me.

    04/28/2024 at 8:37 AM #232004
    Giddy

    I’m still getting it due to the limit orders placed to enter the trades (being <50pts) – don’t think it’s the SL / TP that are the problem for me. I’ve got a workaround (after working with GraHal a year or so ago) but that means MUCH fewer trades since the limit orders are so far away.

    Same issue on 3min, 5min up to 15min (don’t do any longer than that). The way it works means better % successful trades and other metrics but only 5-10 trades each month instead of 30-50 each week (it is set up to trade on one day a week only anyway).

    It’s frustrating – was working brilliantly previously and don’t want to increase my position sizing too much on the current system to compensate for the fewer trades.

     

     

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    avatar GraHal
    04/29/2024 at 11:11 AM #232021
    PeterSt
    GraHal wrote:

    My SL and TP are far out relative to the min distance, but – even during high volatility where min distance can be 100’s of points – the ‘adjust stops’ box appears to work and prevent Rejection of the Algo.   I say appears to work … as how would we know? All I can say is that Rejection for ‘min distance’ is a thing of the past for me.

    Hey GraHal, you must be careful not to get more vague than PeterSt.

    I say (repeatedly) : Those errors are about systems which want to Enter a trade (also see last post from Giddy). You, however, are persistent on stating – mostly by implication – that it is about a stop or something on an Open position which would cause the throw-out. I never saw that a single time.
    I also claim repeatedly that this checkbox at starting the System is about the adjustment of the Limit order under way. This works perfectly and can be shown by me if I’d post one of the videos I recorded of this happening. In addition, there has been no single occasion that I saw that my Pending Stop Order would be pushed away 100 etc. points this is always about (80 points or much more). All what happens more than regularly is that such a Pending Stop Order, when re-entered at the minute (bar’s TF) level, may be moved to the famous 4 points for Nasdaq (during day time). And that happens only once per new inlay of the order (thus each minute). This is obvious, btw (that it occurs only max once per bar).

    Maybe with your Demo account all works different than practice, but if so, it would be good to show it. Then I too understand what you are talking about.
    If needed, I could show my occasions which are only and exclusively about Entering systems, which won’t Enter but are thrown out instead. I can do this only when it would occur again, because my email-proof says nothing if I can’t show a not ever ran system (could be in the pending/rejected tab of the Orders List, but it lasts there for a day or two only, and my occasions are from a longer past – email tells me April 11).

    Yes it is my bad that I never post such a video. That requires practicing of cutting a part from a large video first, unless it could be posted in full in PRC and then still it would be problematic regarding privacy data in there.

     

    Summarized and from (only) Live observations (never Demo) :

    1. Systems are thrown out at the Entry attempt on the “Too close so the price” error.
    2. Systems are never thrown out while happily running on the “Too close so the price”.

     

    04/29/2024 at 12:09 PM #232030
    PeterSt

    This is meant as a heads-up :

     

    Giddy wrote:

    I’ve got a workaround (after working with GraHal a year or so ago) but that means MUCH fewer trades since the limit orders are so far away.

    It is not totally clear to me what you mean with “since the limit orders are so far away”, but I can say this :
    I almost fully stopped with Pending Orders (Stop or Limit) because they are literally killing (the systems); with dozens of systems running all together it is unmanageable. And notice that IB is even worse than IG because with IB it is just about (interface) communication. Long story short : those Pending orders don’t work out – period.

    So make them market orders.

    This is not as bad as people may think. But, you must approach all differently, and possibly a bit more coding skills. Also, turning a system for exits (also entries) into something with a lower timeframe (like minutes instead of hours) seems quite undoable at first, but when accomplished it works perfectly. Still it is not easy to do, and this is because of the adverse effect of, for example, trailing; you can’t make a trailing system in for example 1 second bars. Nothing will trail. Not with real trailing like IG allows to do it, and also not with self-made trailing, which is a requirement for IB (because the “auto trailing” is not allowed there.
    Anyway not undoable but more difficult.

    Any system which has been set up for e.g. Pending Limit Orders will make way less profit (or lose instead of win) when the Limit Order is changed to a Market Order. I have tried and retried in numerous occasions, and it always turned out that the Limit Orders were way way better. Until I decided that I did not want them any more, and started to sit back on how to adjust the consistent system as a whole. And in 100% of cases I managed to make them even more profitable.
    When you think about it, it is even theoretically so that a system with Market Orders for Entry, will trade more. Why ? well, easy enough, because a Limit Order may not be filled, while a Market Order usually is (only in very rare occasions it is not) – and it is instantly. Thus, would you be about “more trades make more money”, then you should use Market Orders. And oh, that they glitch and that the price you get may be less anyway (think twice about this latter now – see previous sentences), would you really care if your number of trades double ?
    And that is what I mean – you wouldn’t care less, BUT change the setup of your systems. This takes time of course (and creativity), but it will be worth while.

    So indeed, I have no thrown out systems any more. Not with IG because of crazy distance idiocy, and not with IB for failing interface communication.
    And tbh, I do have a couple of thrown outs per month with IG, but these are exactly those still entering with Limit Orders.

     

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