ProRealCode MarketPlace: sell your trading products to thousands of ProRealTime users!

• 08/04/2021 at 4:05 PM #174670
  Nicolas

  There is no scam on the marketplace. Products with bad reviews (score below 2.5/5) are removed from the marketplace. All vendors are registered with their own company / personal infos, and are using for real their own products.

  Regarding the Robotronic product you talked about, I removed it, as per one of the Key Performance Indicator (bad reviews, score below 2.5) listed in the Terms of Service, it is not an intentional decision of this vendor. I know that this vendor is easily reachable and responds very quickly to legitimate questions that customers of these products have had lately.

  

  Nicolas

  Keymaster

  Topics: 81

  Replies: 20863

  Been thanked: 4774 times
  08/04/2021 at 8:00 PM #174683
  Paolo.B

  thank you for your answer, but however there remains a problem both positive and “Negative” reviews should also remain in the store, in doing so you have a history of the seller and those who have not seen the past can see it looking at all the reviews a seller has had.              In this way there will never be negative reviews because they disappear together with the product if one has, as in this case, 1 or 2 stars.

  

  Paolo.B

  Participant

  Topics: 12

  Replies: 97

  Been thanked: 18 times
  08/05/2021 at 6:47 AM #174697
  snucke

  Why is it so easy to become a seller and be able to sell things that only has a good backtest like robotronic does? or do you simply dont care about the customers that are being scammed by these 100% winning algos?

  

  snucke

  Participant

  Topics: 9

  Replies: 143

  Been thanked: 21 times
  08/05/2021 at 7:11 AM #174698
  Johnsteed

  When the marketplace was announced to come, I was hoping it will be different from other big market places. I was hoping the buyer’s interests would be more valued than they are elsewhere. The problem elsewhere is that there are too many products in not keeping the promises due to overfitting or intentionally manipulated code. The target should thus be to provide better evidence what a code does in real live trading situations before publishing.

  To me, the best approach is to require published products to have a proven live trading history of at least 6 months. Products with only backtests or paper trading experience should not qualify for publishing at all. A buyer should be able during a test period or via “BT-only” code version to verify that the published live trades can be retrieved in backtests, too, to see if the program code sold is really the one used to create the live results. An honest seller intending to earn money by selling should be able to wait these 6 months, and could enjoy meanwhile the earnings from using his/her own products.

  Why is that not possible to arrange for to make the new marketplace a better one than others?

  

  Johnsteed

  Participant

  Topics: 7

  Replies: 16

  Been thanked: 3 times
  08/05/2021 at 10:53 AM #174721
  Mauro T. “Algorithm System”

  Johnsteed wrote:

  When the marketplace was announced to come, I was hoping it will be different from other big market places. I was hoping the buyer’s interests would be more valued than they are elsewhere. The problem elsewhere is that there are too many products in not keeping the promises due to overfitting or intentionally manipulated code. The target should thus be to provide better evidence what a code does in real live trading situations before publishing.

  To me, the best approach is to require published products to have a proven live trading history of at least 6 months. Products with only backtests or paper trading experience should not qualify for publishing at all. A buyer should be able during a test period or via “BT-only” code version to verify that the published live trades can be retrieved in backtests, too, to see if the program code sold is really the one used to create the live results. An honest seller intending to earn money by selling should be able to wait these 6 months, and could enjoy meanwhile the earnings from using his/her own products.

  Why is that not possible to arrange for to make the new marketplace a better one than others?

   

  I agree with you, in my store I always put the Live to be able to demonstrate its functioning in real, and in fact my customers have rightly asked me to verify that the Backtest is the same as the Live.
  Below I put two algorithms as an example that I have in the Store to be able to show that they are the same …. indeed quite similar because the Live has the Slippage and the spread that clearly does not exist in the backtest.
  Clearly in the store I put only the Live then on request I can also send the backtest to show that they are identical.
  I attach screenshots as an example.
  https://market.prorealcode.com/product/us500-2h-swing-trend-long-11/
  https://market.prorealcode.com/product/dax-2h-trend-reverse/

  Hello
  Mauro

  2 users thanked author for this post.

  Nicolas, phoentzs

  

  Mauro T. “Algorithm System”

  Participant

  Topics: 18

  Replies: 313

  Been thanked: 76 times
  08/05/2021 at 11:32 AM #174733
  CFD AutoTrading

  Our approach is similar and like Johnsteed said.  We realized that can be a good idea a demo only for BT and then we published it a few months ago:  https://bit.ly/34esfCP

   

   

  1 user thanked author for this post.

  Nicolas

  

  CFD AutoTrading

  Participant

  Topics: 4

  Replies: 58

  Been thanked: 21 times
  08/05/2021 at 11:45 AM #174738
  Nicolas

  In the next days to come, I will add a new feature for vendors to propose free trials.

  I am always looking to add new features and provide the best possible service, I think trial versions should allow both users to test tools that may seem too “optimistic” and vendors to have their work validated by the community.

  5 users thanked author for this post.

  Razz, Ryugin, GraHal, saturnin, JC_Bywan

  

  Nicolas

  Keymaster

  Topics: 81

  Replies: 20863

  Been thanked: 4774 times
  08/05/2021 at 12:23 PM #174742
  Johnsteed

  I like to thank for the hints, and as well Nicolas for the updated information.

  I think this is a good step going forward! Buyers will note if sellers have an interest to offer a free trial or not to offer – this interest can then be interpreted, and might influence the decision to buy a product or not to buy.

   

  

  Johnsteed

  Participant

  Topics: 7

  Replies: 16

  Been thanked: 3 times
  08/05/2021 at 12:31 PM #174743
  Nicolas

  Please note that to avoid abuse of trial requests, they will of course be limited, on the one hand for each customer (only 1 trial for the same product possible), and on the other hand for sellers (possibility to give access to trials 1 month after the end of the last trial period).

   

  2 users thanked author for this post.

  CFD AutoTrading, JC_Bywan

  

  Nicolas

  Keymaster

  Topics: 81

  Replies: 20863

  Been thanked: 4774 times
  08/08/2021 at 10:33 AM #174913
  Corto78

  Hello everyone,

  I do not write often on the forum but here I would like to sound the alarm and prevent someone from throwing their money out the window.
  I am not saying that all auto trading systems are bad, I have subscribed two of them myself which I will tell you about once the period of a few months has passed.

  On the other hand, I strongly advise all potential customers to check well with the seller on all the characteristics of their system.

  I’m going to give you an example of what I believe to be a real scam and I’m wondering how the Market Place can let that go.
  This is the product https://market.prorealcode.com/product/ultron-sp500-m1/
  After several exchanges of emails and insisting on having a real trading history of the system, see the attachment picture :

  That is :
  100 contracts US500 is a stake of 443 700 € !!!! o-)

  For a gain of 588.5 € or 0.12% of the fixed capital (still it is necessary to have it) for 2 weeks, reduced to the year that makes 3.27%

  In addition, apart from the weakness of the result in relation to the invested capital, a history on real account of 2 weeks seems to me largely insufficient for a commitment on my part.

  Response from the seller when I give him my review:

  “Mr. 100 contracts visible in the screenshot is the maximum contract limitation of PRT for the robot at the launch of this one not the number of contracts taken ….
  Your calculation is therefore slightly wrong 😉
  For the 2 weeks, I mentioned earlier the increase in version increment which in effect resets the stats. ”

  So let’s wait for the actual stats when they will be available on the Market. Indeed, a system that evolves every two weeks is for me an unstable system.

  Question: Why the Market Place does not require sellers to put the results picture of a real account of several months?
  There would undoubtedly be a lot less sellers but the products would be of better quality.

  Have a good day and be careful

  

  Corto78

  Participant

  Topics: 6

  Replies: 44

  Been thanked: 19 times
  08/08/2021 at 11:42 AM #174922
  Paolo.B

  Hi I also noticed this Algorithm, but unfortunately if as you say the sellers should put all the LIVE results for months in view to be accepted in the Market Place they would remain inside only 2 sellers who are those already mentioned in the previous pages, and I believe that this it is not possible, but it is up to the possible buyer to check if the LIVE exists and not get caught up in impossible things or worse by doing only Backtest.
  As for the number of contracts 100 I believe that that is the maximum of negotiable contracts so that your algorithm does not block in reality it could have put even only 1, but also here because the LIVE is missing the only answer maybe DOES NOT EXIST.

  

  Paolo.B

  Participant

  Topics: 12

  Replies: 97

  Been thanked: 18 times
  08/08/2021 at 1:13 PM #174924
  Nicolas

  At the risk of repeating myself:
  _ the algos present in the marketplace are traded live by their authors (a check is made before the public release).
  _ the marketplace cannot intervene in the writing of the product pages, for obvious reasons of responsibility, it is not possible. I ALWAYS advise sellers to incorporate their live results in their product pages (to anticipate questions from their future customers), some do it, others don’t, if you want more information, you must ask their authors through the forms.

  

  Nicolas

  Keymaster

  Topics: 81

  Replies: 20863

  Been thanked: 4774 times
  08/08/2021 at 4:14 PM #174935
  Johnsteed

  Hello Nicolas,

  you wrote “the algos present in the marketplace are traded live by their authors (a check is made before the public release)”.
  This suggests 2 questions please:

  1. If it is anyway checked that an author trades an offered product live, why does the markeplace rules not simply request to show these results as a must-have? I can’t see an easy logic why the markeplace administration is checking but the material to perform these checks is not made public by default; rather each buyer is asked to obtain evidence about live trading individually from seller, what leads to efforts on both buyer and seller sides for all these repeating Q&As – which could be avoided if sellers simply publish their live trading results always. This has nothing to do with any intervention of marketplace admin into product descriptions. It would just pose a basic requirement if one wants to sell, such as listing the price information.
  2. Can you describe a bit more detailed what the check requirements are for a product to pass the test? For example, is there a minimum period of live trading required, and if yes, how long would it be?

  Thank you & Best Regards!

   

   

  

  Johnsteed

  Participant

  Topics: 7

  Replies: 16

  Been thanked: 3 times
  08/08/2021 at 4:40 PM #174937
  Paolo.B

  If you look in the Market Place you will notice that those who have the LIVE are happy to show it, those who do not show it or are crazy or have nothing to show, in some you see 10 or 15 days that more than a good algorithm is just luck.

  

  Paolo.B

  Participant

  Topics: 12

  Replies: 97

  Been thanked: 18 times
  08/08/2021 at 4:49 PM #174939
  PeterSt

  Corto78 wrote:

  100 contracts US500 is a stake of 443 700 € !!!! o-) For a gain of 588.5 € or 0.12% of the fixed capital (still it is necessary to have it) for 2 weeks, reduced to the year that makes 3.27% In addition, apart from the weakness of the result in relation to the invested capital, a history on real account of 2 weeks seems to me largely insufficient for a commitment on my part.

  Nah, something else is very wrong there;
  If the investment is 443700 and the profit is 588, this can only be huge coincidence observed at a desired “time stamp”. Or else it could be about 10000 trades and the law of the big numbers could justify profit – thus OK. But still not OK because nobody is going to do 10000 trades, wait for years or whatever and is happy with 588 profit.
  Thus I say : scam all over ? No, not yet. Possibly the author does not understand this himself.

  ---

  Nicolas wrote:

  _ the algos present in the marketplace are traded live by their authors (a check is made before the public release).

  I was not aware of that, hence I never see this anywhere. Anyway :

  Corto78 wrote:

  ” […] For the 2 weeks, I mentioned earlier the increase in version increment which in effect resets the stats. ”

  *That* would be a real problem, because the Ultron people hardly can arrange this differently. Otoh, they could show it differently, although it would only look as tweaking. See the 1st attachment and notice the start date of July 21. What would you think of that, eh ? Why did I do that ?

  The answer is simple : I stopped trialing and started to put the lot in “live”-paper. Prior to that messy trades existed as you see in the 2nd attachment. The 3rd attachment shows the reality as of now (up to last Friday).

  I left something out deliberately because it could happen in real live just the same. You would wonder too much (and I would need to explain too much). Still what I left out is harmless.

  Before you ask : the investment is 2 million euros here.

  Corto78 wrote:

  So let’s wait for the actual stats when they will be available on the Market. Indeed, a system that evolves every two weeks is for me an unstable system.

  That could be unjustified. What I (harmlessly) left out, is a change to the Strategy on August 1. Thus, it runs for a few days only ? Actually : Yes. But what can I do ? don’t apply an improvement I see ? See the 4th attachment and watch the dates again. It is on the exact same instrument (investment is also the same). Am I scamming ? Or is the “trial” since August 1 maybe with less risk ? The answer you can’t guess : it is about more trades because for me more trades is more fun.

  The moral of the last part of this post is : In my view such Strategies can never be “static” because you as the developer always see improvements. The better it goes, the more easy it is to see improvements. The more trailing stops (TP) you see happening live (I almost exclusively test forward), the more “improvement” comes to your mind. And there comes the “reset” Ultron talks about. This is just unavoidable. But mind you, this does not prevent any seller to do more than his stinking best to show you his truth. And for that, for me only one test *will* work : the showcase of his own profits on the same Strategy which is offered to you. I mean, why wouldn’t he (or she) …
  (I could have an answer : because it does not exist ?)

  Sorry for the long post.

   

  

  PeterSt

  Participant

  Topics: 73

  Replies: 2544

  Been thanked: 829 times
• Author
  Posts