The future of CFDs (SB)?
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- This topic has 60 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 6 years ago by verdi55.
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01/20/2018 at 11:29 AM #5994301/20/2018 at 6:54 PM #5996901/20/2018 at 8:03 PM #60047
well this is quite upsetting! Im just getting started here 😀 When is this change suppose to be in effect?
Do you think it would be possible to use a company based in a country where its allowed? … guessing probably not 😛
What do you guys look at as alternatives? Im guessing not many here are sitting on enough money to be able to run say 10 systems, when theres talk about needing 3300€ to run 1*5€ contract on dax..
01/20/2018 at 9:45 PM #60049Im guessing not many here are sitting on enough money to be able to run say 10 systems
…and that was one of the points I made. Small traders are more likely to lose money if they cannot diversify. They will end up putting their one egg in one basket whereas before they would have been a dozen eggs in a dozen baskets.
01/21/2018 at 12:14 PM #6006901/21/2018 at 12:49 PM #60071Anyone who has reasonable arguments should send them to ESMA by February 5 :
What exactly are ESMA rules for classification as a professional trader ? In Germany, one of the criteria would be more than 500.000 € in total assets. Or more than 1 year experience as a professional in the financial sector. I guess the latter may be a flexible matter.
I will protest with ESMA, saying that the proposed leverage limitation should only be applied to inexperienced traders (where it may actually make a lot of sense, don’t we all know this ?).
Implementing a leverage limit for experienced private traders may drive them into professional accounts where they would lose some of their advantages, for example the “no negative balance” benefits given only to private investors. In fact, risk of losses may be much higher with lower leverage, because more money has to be in the account for the same number of contracts. When you have a guarantee of “no negative balance”, the amount of money to be lost is higher than before and a leverage limitation would be entirely counterproductive.
When you send a protest to ESMA, do it wisely and seriously. I will say that leverage limits may be well-suited for inexperienced traders. However after one year and / or a certain number of trades made, it may be assumed that there is enough experience to trade with higher leverage.
In France, it was found that about 89% of all CFD clients lose money, most of them within the first 6-12 months. For this group, the ESMA rules may be well-suited, but probably not for algorithmic traders like ourselves with more experience and awareness of risk.
01/21/2018 at 2:55 PM #60072And never forget : what we are doing here, is gambling. Gambling with a certain bias towards the gambler, when there are trends. Most of us try to capture trends statistically with our algorithms, based on experience. But there is no guarantee that values from the past will hold in the future. This is not physics nor chemistry (where I hold a Ph.D., by the way). Very little, if anything, is reproducible here.
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01/21/2018 at 6:21 PM #60083I have been proactively contacted by my broker to change from retail to professionnal status. Requirements are as follow: 1. min x trade per month 2. Min 500,000€ AuM or professionnal experience in finance.
Proving relevant experience is very easy…
01/21/2018 at 6:50 PM #6008501/21/2018 at 9:00 PM #60104im also sceptical of going pro on ig.com but i guess its most because i dont know the pros and cons enough to be sure about anything. Also i dont think i would qualify if we’re talking 100K accounts… 😉
Does anyone know when these changes will be in effect?
I guess if this happens ill turn to stocks and trying to catch some good rides 🙂
01/22/2018 at 11:21 AM #60146I also work with IG and don’t want to go pro, but for the same reason of jebus89.
But which are the alternatives? I like to use PRT, but if I go, for example, to Interactive Brokers, I think the cost would be excessive (min account 10k, almost no leverage, etc.).
01/22/2018 at 5:54 PM #60199I have just received the e-mail from IG Spain about this matter. I read the discussion in the forum some days ago, and I thought it would be affecting to Germany or other countries with some more restrictive legislation for non-professional traders, but ESMA directives are addressed to all European countries.
I will just fill up the formulary with my opinions against this new piece of legislation, since it would ruin all my (our) efforts for the last years. It would be impossible to trade for beginners since no one would enter into this with a 1ok Euro account. Most of the beginners I know are averaging 1.000-5.000€ accounts to start trading with mini-contracts. Bringing trading closer to non-professional traders is one of the reason of the boom for PRT and IG in the last years.
With this attempt from ESMA to reduce leverage for traders, I just see a big “exodus” of traders to other countries/brokers where legislation is more benign. The question is where (??)
01/22/2018 at 9:35 PM #60223I wonder if it would be possible to use foreign markets where you can get the crazy leverage we need or not.. I mean if it was that easy ig would probably just start a company in the cayman islands or something 😀 .. Im not sure wether or not i should continue to work on systems for indicies.. Guess screeners and stocks are the way to go. Any leverage is better then none..
01/22/2018 at 10:05 PM #6022501/22/2018 at 10:44 PM #60229Crazy leverage – as the name implies – is one of the reasons why this kind of regulation is pending and why so many CFD traders bring their accounts down to 0 in the first 6-12 months.
So the sensible few who understand the risks and trade sensibly and only after a lot of research and development will be punished for the crimes of the gambling masses who did not. The gambling masses will then either just look elsewhere for their adrenalin buzz or never gamble again – leaving us to live with the results of their short time in our world.
Whatever happened to common sense? The number one and number two rules of any investment is to understand the risk and if you can’t afford to lose the money then don’t invest. I guess all these gamblers (as opposed to investors) know the risk but like all gamblers like to blame someone else when the gamble does not pay off.
I have set a small percentage of my overall capital aside for spread betting. The rewards could be high but so is the risk. I will not cry if I lose the money and I will not expect legislation to be tightened if I do.
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