Trading system stopped-insufficient funds

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  • 01/28/2022 at 8:48 PM #186888
    OboeOpt

    I have before experienced a trading system on Us crude 1H TF being stopped due to insufficient funds, but there are enough funds.

    Now I am experimenting with a Forex system 15m TF on a few different pairs. Now these systems get stopped all the time with this problem for some reason I can´t understand…
    If I let it start trading at 22.00 I emmidiately get this fault 22.00. If I then restart the system at once, the same thing happens 22.15. In backtest it´s working fine.

    -It´s a live account
    -Yes I have enough funds
    -cumulateorders=false
    -I trade on IG

    Anyone else experienced something similar with a solution?
    Can the error message just be a “standard” one that PRT uses when the problem really is something else?
    I use a tight TP, can that be a problem? Is there a min level?
    I use “readjust stops”, can that be a problem on forex?

    Thanks

    01/28/2022 at 9:49 PM #186892
    GraHal
    OboeOpt wrote:

    there are enough funds.

    Just before your System gets stopped, are your funds Available several times your Margin Required?

    You can see this on the IG Login screen for your Acount … see attached at red arrowhead.

    01/28/2022 at 10:03 PM #186894
    JS

    Hi GraHal,

    Why must your “Available several times your Margin”?

    Is this a IG (demo) rule?

    01/28/2022 at 10:09 PM #186896
    GraHal

    Available doesn’t have to be several times margin, I was trying to think of a searching question (with figures involved) to establish how  OboeOpt thinks / knows his funds are enough!?

    Without asking him to reveal his stash as it is his Live Account! 🙂

    01/28/2022 at 10:24 PM #186900
    JS

    Oké I could not follow… 🙂

    Other question: @OboeOpt do you know the margin calculation of Forex?

    01/28/2022 at 10:46 PM #186903
    OboeOpt
    JS wrote:

    Other question: @OboeOpt do you know the margin calculation of Forex?

    I think so… maybe…

    Let´s put it this way then:
    Another system on for example eur/jpy trades 1 contract without problem.
    This system also trades eur/jpy 1 contract but gets this error when I don´t have any other positions.

    Me doing math then:
    If I look at eur/gbp the contract size is 10000 euro.
    Security is 3,33%
    I need 333 euro as security???

    01/28/2022 at 10:57 PM #186904
    JS

    Yes, that’s right and this is the calculation for the mini (otherwise 3.333 euro as security)

    01/29/2022 at 5:15 AM #186916
    PeterSt
    OboeOpt wrote:

    Now I am experimenting with a Forex system 15m TF on a few different pairs.

     

    OboeOpt wrote:

    -Yes I have enough funds

     

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that. 😉

    You do realize that if you, for example, buy 1 contract of EUR/USD, you would buy buying 100.000 USD ? this is because the contract size is just that. I don’t know about US Crude, buy you can find out (and should !!!).

    The difference with Demo is (or can be) the by you defined contract size in the Edtitor. See in the attachment. So if the contract size is coincidentally defined by 1000 there, you would be able to buy 10 contracts, probably easily. Side note : for IG the “margin” is 3,33%, which means that with 10K cash you could buy 33 times more or 330K. This margin is different for each type of instrument and some times even the instrument itself which even may vary on a weekly (etc.) basis. Thus, the margin on the EUR/TRY will not be 3,33% (I’d say, without sorting it out) but way different like maybe 20% (you could buy only 5 times the cash you have).

    Anecdotal would be that practicing with PRT-IB while going live with PRT-IG is super confusing and very dangerous, because the contract sizes are not the same, similar to the possible difference with Live and what you declare in the Editor. This can happen to you when you have an IB account, with free IG account which latter you would use for Autotrading.

    Lastly, notice that with IG it is possible to buy “fractions” of contracts. Thus, you can buy 0.01 of EUR/USD and would buy USD 1000 in that case. This is besides the fact that instruments could have a “mini” version of them (like EUR/USD Mini which is 1/10th of the normal contract).

    If something like this is your situation, you start to be glad that the environment prevented you from buying xxx times more than you planned, which still would be coincidental because buying xx times (not xxx) more than you want which would be allowed, is devastating just the same.
    But maybe it has another cause after all …

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    avatar GraHal
    01/29/2022 at 10:35 AM #186938
    GraHal
    OboeOpt wrote:

    Can the error message just be a “standard” one that PRT uses when the problem really is something else?

    I have thought above about other error messages.

    But re Insufficient Funds … I have only ever had this message when I have, mmm … insufficient funds! 🙂

    If trades are already open, then Insufficient Funds is usually preceded by an email called a Margin Call, wherein IG asks you to add funds to your Account. If extreme volatility or a big spike then often there is not time for the email and bang, bang, bang all your trades are closed!!! Then – sods law – price reverses and by the time you get up in the morning, had you not been margined out, you would be well back on the road to recovery!!

    Above is why it is well worth not over-extending funds on trades and also to keep Available several times Margin.  

    01/29/2022 at 12:06 PM #186945
    Eric

    Any pending orders? (buy/sell at stop or limit)

    01/29/2022 at 12:43 PM #186957
    Eric

    Some barrier options have only 0,5% to 1% to the knockout level (guaranteed stop)

    Maybe with Prorealtime v20 we can trade them in proorder? (if we are still alive)

    01/29/2022 at 3:42 PM #186990
    OboeOpt
    Eric wrote:

    Any pending orders? (buy/sell at stop or limit)

    Maybe you´re on to something here! Could have been pending orders active at the same time as a algo tried to take a position. But do they “use up/reserve” money from the security level? If so please explain! I thought it was like “first come-first serve”.

    But still (using my calculation in #186903) there would be enough money for all my algos to take position at the same time.

    01/29/2022 at 3:45 PM #186991
    OboeOpt
    GraHal wrote:

    Guys do you think it would be worth moving the last 6 Comments to the General Trading Discussions? Or better still … move the whole Topic

    You can move the comments that´s about other things, the rest of the topic I still think is about my problem.

    01/29/2022 at 3:59 PM #186992
    OboeOpt
    PeterSt wrote:

    You do realize that if you, for example, buy 1 contract of EUR/USD, you would buy buying 100.000 USD ? this is because the contract size is just that. I don’t know about US Crude, buy you can find out (and should !!!).

    I put my active algos in a excel sheet where one of the columns is “security” calculated as in #186903. I adjust the number of algos or the number of contracts so that my account can have position on every algo without “breaking the bank”. I haven´t had this problem before when trading up to 15 algos on dax, wall street, usa500 and so on. It´s only that us crude that´s done this before these forex ones.

    01/30/2022 at 12:27 AM #187041
    JS

    @OboeOpt

    Is your system/code amended to the different calculations in Forex and US Crude? (contractsize, pipsize, pipvalue, depositfactor…?)

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