What changes in market sentiments

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  • #217220

    I have put in a large amount of time in coding over the past couple of years. When I optimize a model for the last 6 months I can get it to look really good. I try to just add general values for not risking getting into curve-fitting. My latest model takes nearly 600 entries for the last 6 months so hard to curve-fit to much. Anyhow, when I then try to backtest the code from 2021-2023 the equity goes quite horisontal from the beginning til the time from where my optimisation starts and then 45 degrees upwards. Some months ago I added volatility as a factor for some of my indicators and I also entered every pricepoint in percentage instead of fixed points and then multiplied it with close. This in order to make the model adapt himself to higher/lower index and between high volatility and low volatility.
    My question; besides index-level and volatility what is market sentiments? What is it more that changes over time that I should build into my model and make it adapt event more over time?

    Indicators such RSI, MovingAverage, Supertrend – how should I alter their values over time?

    Thank you for answers.
    Regards,

    Erik Olsson

    #217221

    I have put in a large amount of time in coding over the past couple of years. When I optimize a model for the last 6 months I can get it to look really good. I try to just add general values for not risking getting into curve-fitting. My latest model takes nearly 600 entries for the last 6 months so hard to curve-fit to much. Anyhow, when I then try to backtest the code from 2021-2023 the equity goes quite horisontal from the beginning til the time from where my optimisation starts and then 45 degrees upwards. Some months ago I added volatility as a factor for some of my indicators and I also entered every pricepoint in percentage instead of fixed points and then multiplied it with close. This in order to make the model adapt himself to higher/lower index and between high volatility and low volatility.

    My question; besides index-level and volatility what is market sentiments? What is it more that changes over time that I should build into my model and make it adapt event more over time?

    Indicators such RSI, MovingAverage, Supertrend – how should I alter their values over time?

    Thank you for answers.

    Regards,

    Erik Olsson

    I can add that this model is written in 1 minute timeframe. I add some pictures from detailed report.

    #217225

    The chronicals of an auto-trader

     

    Hi there e-rik,

    You did all very well (if I may say so), but :

     Anyhow, when I then try to backtest the code from 2021-2023 the equity goes quite horisontal from the beginning til the time from where my optimisation starts and then 45 degrees upwards.

    That is quite typically the proof that you over-optimised after all. It happens to the best (if not all), no matter what you do not to do it. 🙂

    The measures you took are technical measures, which indeed are necessary first (again, well done). What I can’t see is the instrument, and if it’s in another currency, you may have forgotten to factor out that. And Yes, these technical measures are hard as it is to begin with, but when covered then you have a good base not to be mislead.

    I apply explicitly what you described : create a system for the period of just over 6 months (1 minute TF) and afterwards test it on over-fitting by letting loose 1M bars on it. If it is okay-ish I let it go, if the change is too wild (like in your case) I may start all over, but only within the 200K bars period.
    Only one time – and only recently after now 5 years of development – I ran into a situation that the curve remained quite the same, and from there I could see why;

    I appeared to use signals which just don’t relate to the market(-sentiment) at all which in this case was about a highs and lows system. Of course I optimized over the period of those highs and lows, but that was all. Fact in this case : the revenue was too low to work with it, and I ditched the system. Or ? …

    I find myself to go lower and lower with expectations if only the System will withstand time. That *is* more important, right ?

    Over time I more and more focus explicitly on what to do in order not to be over-fitting in the first place. No averages. No perceived cycles. No RSI’s. No-nothing ?
    For fun I give you 4 screenshots (attachment 1-4). These are all backtests, except for virtually the first. They all work with USD 215000 (~EUR 200000).


    The first is the one I am using on Live since April somewhere. Psychologically I deem it wrong because of the so many wrong entries. However, that *is* a means to let things work over time. I can’t explain that really, but it works out. I wanted to change this psychological state of mine, and sat down this weekend to change it towards the other direction : make it winning mostly..

    The second shows the result after a full Saturday of “hard work” but with a lot of experience on such mostly winning systems. Notice that the System itself was not – or hardly changed in code – this is all Parameter stuff (SL and such and 30 more). For the life of me I could not get rid of this bend-down towards this end, which is 25% of the period. Not a good prospectus, especially not when ending in a down trend.
    For each of the maybe 100 backtests of that day, I stared at the cause. I could not see it, but possibly it was about volatility.

    Sunday the whole of the day – except for watching F1, lead to the third and final result. All I did that day was selecting results with a technical means : the least subsequent losses which were only 2 to begin with at the end of Saturday. Thus, the fewest times that 2 subsequent losses occur. I the end result this was 2 times. Thus, over the 244 trades, only two times 2 subsequent losses occur. Notice that during the Saturday I ran into situation of  none of these (so only 1 “subsequent” loss) but the curve of that I didn’t like at all.
    All I did for code change was being able to cough-up those subsequent data right from the hart, instead of counting it in each result.

    So as you can see, I now chose for 3 times less the revenue only because psychologically I can’t stand to see the Entry going in the wrong direction of what I would do manually, knowing that it would bring more net anyway. And careful, the sheer reason of the less revenue lays in the fewer trades. This is logic for the better entries – which thus will be fewer – but I will gain back on that by another technical means (Money Management) that anticipates less losses. I could not work on that yesterday, but I will finish that today and I will put this live instead of the old System. When it is finished, I may add the 1M backtest result and will show you that I did not bother about that this time (head in the sand). I anticipate it will be terrible.

    I hope this “chronicals” will help you. It is really about the story and not about the results; a way of thinking.
    Regards,
    Peter

    #217250

    As promised … there you go. Mouse is at the original starting point of 200K backtests and optimisation. You can recognise the 200K part. I zoomed in so the left hand part is not visible (makes profit but with a wild curve and goes under as you can see).

     

    #217252

    Thank you for taking time and sharing your thoughts and your findings from working with your own system.
    Of course there is an overoptimisation, and exactely as you say I could live with less profit last 200k bars if it just works over time. A more robust system with lower drawdown means you can increase the exponation and thereof earn more money anyway.

    Yes, I use RSI and MA for exampel. But that is only because that is an easy way to explain what is happening in the chart without having the code itself to check what has happened the last time in the chart. And why doesnt RSI works the same in 2022 as it does in 2023? The calculation is the same. The movement in the chart is quite the same. Same with MA – an upgoing trend now was an upgoing trend even a year ago. What has changed? I understand that if I had made very few trades there are a big chance of curve-fitting – but I am doing about 600 trades over 200k bars – and that is just long positions I am about to add short as well. By the way this system trades the US Tech 100 Cash in 1 minute time frame. My plan is also to add a 5 minute variant and also one Asian-index and one European-index to have trades more hours over the day.

    If I take a random guy from the street and show him the chart from 2023 and then show him the chart from 2022 – he can´t tell a difference. The candlesticks and the waves is almost the same. He can see that the indexlevel is higher or lower but that I take in caution in some matters. If I add volatility he can see that that alters and I try to take care of that as well. But what more differs in a way that translates a moneymachine to a mediocre system?

    If I optimise my system in 1M backtest instead – would it be more general and better forwards? Or is it better to once every month reoptimise the system and restart with new values and always have the latest market-sentiment-values?

    Is it posible to build in an AI-like function that himself calculates and optimises the best values?

    Regards,

    Erik

    #217253

    Your results is quite likely to mine. Yesterday I sent the picture from the entire 1M database and this is the detailed report from 200k bars. One with 4 fixed contracts and another one with my own money management that increases the exponation with taking care of the security-demands with the start of approximately 3000 euros.
    /Erik

    #217256

    This may require a few responses …

    And why doesnt RSI works the same in 2022 as it does in 2023? The calculation is the same.

    Below you see the 1M workout of that original system from the 1st attachment in my first post. Cursor is again at the start of the 200K. I really did not optimise beyond that. Otoh I must be careful somewhat because this System is a few months old already, so back then I may have been optimising back to the dip you see, say just under the crossing of zero (where the mouse is at). Point here is :

    This only works with strength. Not RSI but simple price movement. Did that suddenly change then ?
    The answer has to be Yes because there’s nothing else for Entry (but I must be careful because Trailing etc. parameters (or what they work upon – which is price again) may have chaged as well).
    I think there are just too many “things” which we optimise and which go unnoticed. So I can optimise price excursions, but it happens over 200.000 bars hence 200.000 changed prices. Most go in with Limit orders, and what if things are less wild and orders get not filled ? I don’t even know because I choose a. the most trades and b. the best gain but merely : the best looking curve.

     

    If I optimise my system in 1M backtest instead – would it be more general and better forwards?

    This is surely what I have done in the past. It gives the idea of better resiliency. With that too you will give in on gain, but that’s okay. Still I don’t do that any more because if I can do that by means of the 200K bars, it is way way stronger.

    Hi again Erik,

    For me the recently learned lesson about the highs and lows is important (call it resistance and support) : that will change things much less. Highs are there always and lows the same. If you can only decently find them in a meaningful fashion. That is not what I could do sofar. Or at least that’s what I thought, which was prior to what I showed in my last post – from this weekend. So looking back at that, it looks way better; more gain and especially thus the resilience. See attachment 2 for the 200K and attachment 3 for the 1M. But to remember and for fun : that 2nd attachment was a first version – not optimised at all (only finding resistance and support). Now look at the 4th attachment. That is 200K again after “making it better”. I never looked at the 1M result (I quit that System) but we can bet again that *now* it will look worse.

    More later, if you like. I can also show a Nasdaq (Future from IB). I will first adjust it with new MM features I applied to EUR/USD this morning.
    First, however, a hint : you should really take into consideration that your (beautiful) MM will run stuck against broker limits. I mean, what you show there will end up (within what you show already) with 20M+ investments. That will never work for IG and with IB only after “arrangements”. Also, under way you may run into Margin troubles. I know, this is not your subject, but take it into consideration anyway.

    PS: I did not want to mention it this morning, but as I now see you will definitely understand it readily : MM will flatten dips of unforeseen markets. If it only works like …
    … what you show.

     

     

     

    #217261

    Same with MA – an upgoing trend now was an upgoing trend even a year ago. What has changed? I

    Finally more to the content of your topic and answer to above question : quite a lot. 😉

    To give the idea : I have not been able to trade manually since November 2020. Only the past couple of months I am fine with that again. For AutoTrading I see :

    Nothing remains sufficiently stable. I mean, how many times have you seen Nasdaq (Tech 100) going down the drain while you were sure it would finally stay (up) for once ?
    A countless number of times, I’d say.
    So especially if your systems are based on trend-like stuff, they will fail these days (not so much the past two-three months).

    I started all over just over a year ago. This means that my “strategies” are based up ongoing sideward. The effect is that they perform extra-good on trends. They could be better on trends if I had made them for trends, but at least today they perform better than what the backtests showed.
    That’s something else for a change.

    I must admit that with MM active (like you apply it yourself) it is all what harder to see through (interpret).

    #217264

    Wouldn’t it be more robust to only engage in long trades? As an index tends to go long as a general direction? Short are very often unforeseen events. A pure long system can be very stable over a long period of time. Less drawdown and fewer spikes in the performance curve.

    #217265

    phoentzs, I tried so many times – it never works out for me. Missing too many opportunities or something. I could easily show you. Longs + Shorts in parallel (two systems) will even give 0.5 of L+S result. I would expect the other way around.
    But I must say that I never optimised a System for that.

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